[DogParkList] Whirlwind (long)

[Jonathan G0DVJ]

Hi all, Scott, Don,
Been reading this thread with interest... when like Scott I can keep  
up with it...
(but lets take the number of inputs as a sign of the support for new  
features ... whether or not they can eventually be included!)...
And it looks like more of a deluge than it is ... I, like many, am  
getting most messages twice cross-posted to the different lists!

On Jan 8, 2009, at 11:25 pm, B. Scott Andersen wrote:

> 1. Cab-converter is a compliment/add-on to MacLoggerDX. ...

> I've tried not to have any "overlap" with Don's product--MacLoggerDX

> captures the data and Cab-converter packages it into a form suitable

> for contest sponsors. I don't look for this relationship to change.


This separation is great ... no need for a logger to cope with contest  
entries... and thanks for all the efforts in making these two work  
well together on both sides.


> 2. Don is exactly right: the contesting group is _small_ within the  

> MacLoggerDX community.


Yes - because for most ardent contesters, the logger (even with the  
contest helper features) and the use of CabConverter together still  
don't give them the same or better facilities than they have with  
their existing software - so i suspect that most Contesters with a Mac  
(a number which is increasing all the time) still use a PC or their  
Mac with Bootcamp/Parallels etc. for the contest logging part of their  
activities.  Those same people will undoubtedly have seen the light by  
now and realised that MLDX is the best thing to use for the rest of  
their logging/activity requirements (and indeed MacDoppler for their  
Satellite work).  And by the way, having the logging during a contest  
actually part of your main station log is valuable ... allows for neat  
integration of data like contest/event name for QSL and other purposes  
afterwards.

The contester potential audience is huge - sure we can be labelled as  
a difficult bunch - especially when we fill the non-WARC bands on many  
weekends throughout the year - but actually that point itself  
demonstrates the size of the cake.  However there are very specific  
things contesters need to support their operation during the contest  
and afterwards.  Pretty much like satellite users who need specific  
stuff ... only the number of people contesting must dwarf those  
playing seriously with the birds.  However, MacDoppler is very  
successful for this small audience because it is a separate program  
customised for those users.  It wouldn't be half as good if the modes  
and doppler tuning parts were bundled into MLDX as options within the  
rig control but the predictions and tracking was left out because it  
wasn't needed for the bulk of DX chasers.  I'm not being picky here  
but just trying to illustrate the points.  However as Don said, he is  
not going to resurrect any thoughts of separate software for  
contesting which has already died in the past!  And unfortunately we  
all know he is far too busy with a day job as well as this fine  
looking rewrite of MLDX for Cocoa (love the screen shots!) even if the  
inclination was there.  So the question is  what can be put into MLDX  
which helps contesters and that is what the new contest panel partly  
addresses and many thanks for canvassing the community Don.


> A quick check

> of the membership list for Cab-converter shows only 116 entries. Some

> of these may not be active anymore (it is difficult to say who is  

> "actively"

> contesting, who is still using the Mac, etc.). That's not very many  

> users

> for a complex piece of software like MacLoggerDX or Cab-converter!


The membership list numbers reflect what I have said above ... not the  
huge contester numbers that we hear on the bands.


> I don't know if many of you can imagine the many hundreds or thousands

> of hours that goes into a significant software development project-- 

> only to

> have the results spread over such a tiny population. As a self- 

> sufficient

> group, we've done very well so far mustering development resources

> towards getting usable software competitive, at least to some extent,

> with that used by our Windows-using counterparts whom number in the

> many thousands.


Its more of a chicken and egg situation Scott ... if the competitive  
contesting software was there then the Mac contesting community would  
emerge more clearly and switch.


> So, during this time of rewrites I would urge all of us to remember  

> that

> programming resources are scarce (both Don and I are working alone

> on our perspective ends of it) and programming itself is time- 

> consuming

> and tedious. Please be patient.


I have done software development professionally (the Queen's telephone  
exchange amongst others contains some of my code!) albeit some decades  
ago so I do understand and appreciate the resources (incl skills and  
time) required.  I have great admiration for all the folk who develop  
ham software for OSX incl. yourself and Don.  Thanks again.


> 4. I believe that there are two categories of feature requests  

> contesters might

> push for:

>

> (*) Data entry and management during the contest

> (*) Data import, export, and processing post-contest

>

> The first group consists of database column definitions, data entry  

> screen

> designs, and contest-specific logic.


I would split your first group into two ... sure there are the data  
entry fields (which Don has asked for input on) and their associated  
screen/panel layouts and designs along with the corresponding database  
column support.  Some software also offers different support for  
running and S&P.  This is all about input.  I'm assuming (sorry) by  
logic that you mean the dynamics of moving between fields effectively  
and some other stuff, perhaps the dupe checking required etc.   I  
would put the immediate dupe checking into my  second half... along  
with other stuff more to do with supporting the contest op with  
information to make the right decisions and to motivate... such as  
super partial checking, QSO rates, and scoring information (how many  
DXCCs, Zones, IOTAs etc per band/mode),stats such as how long spent on  
a band/mode etc and bandmap data etc.  The final contest scoring is  
not so important - it can be done with the post contest software since  
most contest adjudicators nowadays rescore cabrillo entry logs anyway.


> Because the contesting part of the MLDX community is also some of  

> the more

> heavy users, we should be expected to apply our extra expertise and  

> insight

> into helping with the non-contesting-specific features as well.


Agreed ... one almost defacto standard now for CW operators is the use  
of K1EL's WinKey hardware now both in contests and outside them.  I  
have this plumbed in my keying circuit to multiple radios now and use  
it for both ... the last thing I want to do is to unplug and re-cable  
things between my keyer and the computer and radio whether I am  
contesting or not.    So WinKey USB support would be fantastic and  
remove the need to include custom CW keying code/interfacing within  
MLDX.



> LONG MESSAGE. SORRY.

Its ok - I always do too - but easy to get the wrong idea across if  
you write it quickly!    Sorry too.


My inputs for Don's original question (in addition to those suggested  
by others so far) ...


a)   Name of Club (free text field)  and a check box whether a Club  
Station, Club Member or Neither.   (actually all needed for an RSGB  
contest!)  No suggesting a dedicated field but it does illustrate the  
benefit of a free format text field option for any strange data that  
has to be recorded.

b)   Operator Name.  &   c)  Age.

d)   Date first licenced.


Finally while we are getting up to date with general logging / station  
operation ... how about remote station operation support (from  
iPhone! ... I already use MLDX with Skype for this but it could be  
slicker), real time stats publishing via the net, SO2R, SO2V, SDR  
skimmer input to the band map in the same way as DX cluster can...    
But I suspect these are features for different software ... sorry.

And sorry I am hopeless with icon design and inevitably impressed with  
the ability of others in this regard.
Happy new year all.

73
Jonathan G0DVJ
--